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June 14, 2005

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Listed below are links to weblogs that reference My response to Scoble:

» RConversation: My response to Scoble from silent dreams
Scoble and MacKinnon in discussion on Microsoft censoring MSN spaces (blogs) in China This discussion relates on a larger level to the tension between doing business on the one hand and taking up a (moral) role of Western companies in China on the o... [Read More]

» mckinnion on microsoft from asiapundit
Rebecca McKinnion weighs in on the pro-censorship, anti-expression, position taken by Microsoft’s in-house blogger Robert Scoble:I lived in China for nine years straight as a journalist, and if you add up other times I've lived there it comes to nearly [Read More]

» http://www.thinfilmmfg.com/mtblog/mtarchive03/week_2005_06_12.html#001066 from Thin Film Manufacturing: Katherine's Blog
I couldn't have said it better myself. Rebecca McKinnon explodes the ridiculous suggestion that Chinese citizens don't want free speech.... [Read More]

» A Minute with Dan: Don't Mention Democracy from Bayosphere

So Microsoft is helping China censor political blogs? Here's my take (181K MP3).Also, as requested by several people in the comments and by [Read More]

» It can't happen there? from Classical Values
Microsoft censors bloggers? Can such things be? According to reports like this, Microsoft is doing just that. And it joins Yahoo and Google in cooperating with government censorship: BEIJING - Users of Microsoft’s new China-based Internet portal were b... [Read More]

» It can't happen there? from Classical Values
Microsoft censors bloggers? Can such things be? According to reports like this, Microsoft is doing just that. And it joins Yahoo and Google in cooperating with government censorship: BEIJING - Users of Microsoft’s new China-based Internet portal were b... [Read More]

» On Chinese "free" speech from LUX.ET.UMBRA
At first, I wasn't going to weigh in being that the big guns have already taken their place - with Rebecca MacKinnon against the government censorship and Robert Scoble for. Our own Ed Cone even covers this passionate dispute. Both... [Read More]

» Microsoft's Steaming Pile from The National Debate
Rebecca MacKinnon is hopping mad and ripping Microsoft and, in particular, MS Evangelist-Blogger Robert Scoble over Microsoft's collaboration with the Chinese government to censor bloggers. Scoble writes: I've been to China...I met with Government offi... [Read More]

» Microsoft Censoring Chinese Blogs from Zmetro.com
BBC:Weblog entries on some parts of Microsoft's MSN site in China using words such as "freedom", "democracy" and "demonstration" are being blocked. Chinese bloggers already face strict controls and must register their online journal with Chinese author... [Read More]

» NO FREE SPACE AT MSN IN COMMUNIST CHINA from EGO
It looks like the dictatorship in communist China is continuing to clamp down on bloggers' freedom of speech. I hope that Microsoft is not assisting the censorship measures by the Shanghai city government. Here is an excerpt from the article, Microso... [Read More]

» Chinese Democracy from Ryan Sholin's J-School Blog
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» InstaMonkey: If you needed another reason to hate Microsoft (UPDATED) from Infinite Monkeys
Reason has one. UPDATE: Here's more, via InstaPundit.... [Read More]

» MacKinnon on Corporate Support for Chinese Censorship from The Importance of...
I haven't written about the recent controversy over Microsoft filtering certain words on their Chinese internet portal because I figured it would only be news if Microsoft hadn't caved in to censors (Microsoft Bans 'Democracy' for China Web Users). The... [Read More]

» Need more reasons to hate Microsoft? from The Peking Duck
China Hand Rebeca McKinnon tears Microsoft's hyperactive blogger Robert Scoble a new one (deservedly) over his "see-no-evil" attitude toward Microsoft's censoring of key words in blogs (you know, really dangerous words like "democracy"). I lived in Chi... [Read More]

» Need more reasons to hate Microsoft? from The Peking Duck
China Hand Rebeca McKinnon tears Microsoft's hyperactive blogger Robert Scoble a new one (deservedly) over his "see-no-evil" attitude toward Microsoft's censoring of key words in blogs (you know, really dangerous words like "democracy"). I lived in Chi... [Read More]

» Where have I heard this before? from LightFrog Blog
Microsoft's Robert Scoble answers the justified brickbats that his company has taken over its this. Rebecca Mackinnon answers back here but what seems to be missing is context which I shall provide: The money quote of Scoble is this: I've... [Read More]

» Microsoft Apologists from TechnologyReview.com
Yesterday I blogged about Microsoft's decision to aid and abet the Chinese government in their desire to censor Chinese bloggers. Robert Scoble, a Microsoft employee and prominent blogger, predictably comes to his employer's defense: after writing that... [Read More]

» The Need for an Author of Morality from Church Voices
Rebecca MacKinnon blows apart Microsoft’s justification for collaborating with the Chinese government to censor their citizens. Let’s take a wide angle view of the justification Microsoft used. Microsoft blogger Robert Scoble had this... [Read More]

» Microsoft Apologists from TechnologyReview.com
Yesterday I blogged about Microsoft's decision to aid and abet the Chinese government in their desire to censor Chinese bloggers. Robert Scoble, a Microsoft employee and prominent blogger, predictably comes to his employer's defense: after writing that... [Read More]

» Microsoft's Slanted Eyes - Can we look askance? from macCompanion Blog

Rebecca MacKinnon has a few terse comments to say about Microsoft's spinmeisters and enforcement of Red China's anti-freedom of speech stance. Caution, strong language. Let's see, Apple's managment is considered left-of&#... [Read More]

» literally a neo-industrial revolution from Literally, A Web Log
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» 不能说“自由”的自由和不能说“民主”的民主 from PODCAST PODIUM 播客宝典
民主和自由可以被践踏,但永远不会消亡。 而践踏民主和自由,正如丹·吉尔默丹·吉尔墨在其草根媒体Bayosphere上的“不要提民主” 所说,实在不是一件光彩的事。 [Read More]

» China through Robert Scoble’s eyes from doubleaf's blog
关于最近微软在MSN Spaces 中国版上禁止使用“自由”、“民主”等词作为标题一事,微软的员工 Robert Scoble(不知道其具体头衔,据称是technical evangelist)在自己blog上说,他遇到的... [Read More]

» Is cooperation with the Chinese from sxeptomaniac
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» MSN Spaces - The Blog Ghetto? from BusinessPundit
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» 邪恶的事情 from CNBlog: Blog on Blog
最近常说“别做邪恶的事情”,可是照旧有人做而且还振振有词。相对于从前批评BKZG(改名了?),MSN Spaces的邪恶更上一层,至少我今天还可以在前者看到一些好文章。Robert Scoble 试图用“��... [Read More]

» 邪恶的事情 from CNBlog: Blog on Blog
最近常说“别做邪恶的事情”,可是照旧有人做而且还振振有词。相对于从前批评BKZG(改名了?),MSN Spaces的邪恶更上一层,至少我今天还可以在前者看到一些好文章。Robert Scoble 试图用“��... [Read More]

» 邪恶的事情 from CNBlog: Blog on Blog
最近常说“别做邪恶的事情”,可是照旧有人做而且还振振有词。相对于从前批评BKZG(改名了?),MSN Spaces的邪恶更上一层,至少我今天还可以在前者看到一些好文章。Robert Scoble 试图用“��... [Read More]

» 邪恶的事情 from CNBlog: Blog on Blog
最近常说“别做邪恶的事情”,可是照旧有人做而且还振振有词。相对于从前批评BKZG(改名了?),MSN Spaces的邪恶更上一层,至少我今天还可以在前者看到一些好文章。Robert Scoble 试图用“��... [Read More]

» 邪恶的事情 from CNBlog: Blog on Blog
最近常说“别做邪恶的事情”,可是照旧有人做而且还振振有词。相对于从前批评BKZG(改名了?),MSN Spaces的邪恶更上一层,至少我今天还可以在前者看到一些好文章。Robert Scoble 试图用“��... [Read More]

» 邪恶的事情 from CNBlog: Blog on Blog
最近常说“别做邪恶的事情”,可是照旧有人做而且还振振有词。相对于从前批评BKZG(改名了?),MSN Spaces的邪恶更上一层,至少我今天还可以在前者看到一些好文章。Robert Scoble 试图用“��... [Read More]

» Microsoft on Chinese Censorship: We Censor in the US Too! from The Importance of...
The LA Times has a very good article on Microsoft's censorship of blogs in China, the background and the controversy (As China Censors the Internet, Money Talks). For more about this issue, I highly recommend Rebecca MacKinnon's My Response to... [Read More]

» Microsoft on Chinese Censorship: We Censor in the US Too! from The Importance of...
The LA Times has a very good article on Microsoft's censorship of blogs in China, the background and the controversy (As China Censors the Internet, Money Talks). For more about this issue, I highly recommend Rebecca MacKinnon's My Response to... [Read More]

» Scoble Embroiled in PR Firestorm Over China Statements from B.L. Ochman's weblog - Internet strategy, marketing, public relations, politics with news and commentary
Robert Scoble, is embroiled in a controversy with Rebecca MacKinnon, former CNN reporter and now a research scholar at The Berkman Cetner for Internet & Society at Harvard Law School, over his stance on free speech in China. I know, like and respect th... [Read More]

» Scoble Embroiled in PR Firestorm Over China Statements from B.L. Ochman's weblog - Internet strategy, marketing, public relations, politics with news and commentary
Robert Scoble, is embroiled in a controversy with Rebecca MacKinnon, former CNN reporter and now a research scholar at The Berkman Cetner for Internet & Society at Harvard Law School, over his stance on free speech in China. I know, like and respect th... [Read More]

» Bloggers Circumvent MSN Spaces China Filter from emodo
Global Voice Bloggers are reporting that Bennett Haselton of Peacefire.org has discovered a way to circumvent the filters on MSN Spaces China. The filter (discussed yesterday) blocks political profanity such as "freedom" and "democracy" from the titles [Read More]

» Rebecca MacKinnon on Global Voices from New Media Musings
CJRDaily has a Q [Read More]

» Forget Whales - Save the Crows! from The Post Money Value
My fellow Americans and citizens of the world. We have a crisis on our hands that only you can help avert: Crow extinction. Yes, crows are in immediate danger of extinction with almost no hope of survival. How did this crisis appear seemingly overnight... [Read More]

» Podcast bans words "Freedom" and "Democracy" from Silent Running
Mentioned in this week's edition of Shire Network News, the official podcast of silentrunning.tv, Microsoft's cozying up to Chinese governmental views on subversive words, Robert Scoble, Rebecca McKinnon, Global Voices, Australian hostage Douglas Woods... [Read More]

» I hate to be a nag, but . . . from Classical Values
I see that Bill Gates has held talks with Vietnamese Prime Minister Phan Van Khai in an effort to stop software piracy: Vietnamese Prime Minister Phan Van Khai pledged to combat software piracy during talks with Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates... [Read More]

» I hate to be a nag, but . . . from Classical Values
I see that Bill Gates has held talks with Vietnamese Prime Minister Phan Van Khai in an effort to stop software piracy: Vietnamese Prime Minister Phan Van Khai pledged to combat software piracy during talks with Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates... [Read More]

» Chinese Blog Censorship from Not As Southern Evans
I became aware of the issue of the Chinese goverment censoring pro-Democracy blogs when MSN Spaces announced that they would block blogs with certain keywords (democracy, freedom, etc, but in Chinese of course) Here's a good counter argument just for ... [Read More]

» Where Do You Want To Be Allowed To Go Today? from Center for Media and Democracy

Rebecca MacKinnon has done the best writing I've seen about Microsoft's evil deal with the government of China. Microsoft jiggered the soft [Read More]

» Where Do You Want To Be Allowed To Go Today? from Center for Media and Democracy

Rebecca MacKinnon has done the best writing I've seen about Microsoft's evil deal with the government of China. Microsoft jiggered the soft [Read More]

Comments

Curt

Amen.

Hans Suter

Maybe Scoble wants to tell us that he isn't free to blog ?
;-)

Albert Tanutama

hi Rebecca, I commented in scoble's blogs that there's a fine line between limiting and restricting. Microsoft has created a software that promotes freedom of speech, but they are required to limit the software according to the local culture. I consider it as a sign of respect to the local culture. However, if microsoft created a software, specifically, to restrict the freedom of speech in order to get a business, that I will consider as not putting the money where your mouth is.

Craig

Microsoft word is an export, and every dollar China spends on Microsoft products is money that flows into our economy.

Furthermore, Microsoft provides a product, they are not defenders of democracy. It's not like they're providing arms. Besides, isn't it preferable to make China depend on an American corporation, instead of encourage them to be self-sufficient and develop useful products on their own? As long as China is dependent on us for basic technology, they will not be a threat.

Katherine

I think you mean "respect for the local government," Albert. I think the whole point of Rebecca's post is that the local government's aims are not necessarily those of the individuals who make up the local culture.

More generally, one can justify all sorts of things as "respect for local culture," from racial and religious discrimination to stoning of homosexuals. That doesn't make those things right. If you're willing to sacrifice your stated values in the interests of business, then you have just demonstrated to the world that business is your only value.

Tad

At the same time you say "But to state that Chinese students and professors have an "anti-free-speech stance" is the biggest pile of horseshit about China I've come across in quite some time." you also says "In my experience, most Chinese, like all other human beings I've ever met, would very much like to have freedom of speech." and "What they don't want is to lose their jobs and educational opportunities by pushing too hard at the restrictions their government has placed on their ability to speak". Well , you just said the anti-free-speech stance is a "pile of horseshit" but you just confirms what you said down on the post ... If they like to have freedom of speech is because they don't have , and if they don't want to lose their jobs and educational opportunities by pushing the restrictions their government has placed they have an ANTI-FREE-SPEECH STANCE ...

Robert Scoble

Hans: I'm free to blog whatever I like. The fact that I link to those who disagree with me proves that.

isaac

I think Robert is free enough on blogging, but maybe not so free on thinking of the whole thing. As a Chinese blogger, I'd say how painful we are to do blogging under the shadow of "self-policing" that Robert may never feel.

Even just from technical view, Robert may understand how evil to tell a word is "illegal" or "legal". Is there any word a natural born criminal?

In this case, MS is definitely a conspiracy to "anti-free-speech" and even far more than gov like to see. So suspicious that it's a flattering behavior for some other goals?

About those "professors" and "students" Robert talked with before. I don't think they were talking to you from heart inside. People there are accustomed to tell foreigners how great my country is and try to hide any real feelings. And most importantly, the academic atmosphere in China is too "unified" today to be referenced.

Opine6

Craig,you are mistaken. China will knock off Microsoft's software and mass produce it. Microsoft will be lucky if they recoup their initial development cost.

American manufacturers who have been foolish enough to move their operations to China have had to contend with China setting up a factory down the road from them, producing the same product, before they've barely opened their doors.

The Chinese Government doesn't subscribe to the notion of "intellectual property". Just ask the music industry.

Other than that, I hope the Chinese will have Internet free speech someday, like we have (for now).

digitalbrownshirt

"Microsoft has created a software that promotes freedom of speech, but they are required to limit the software according to the local culture. I consider it as a sign of respect to the local culture."

Albert, the problem with this is that the local culture is whatever the communist party says it is. People don't generally hire government officials to keep them silent because they want to shut up but some possessing demon won't let them.

Also, nice picture Rebecca! I'm usually against the torture of a female invading my space, but think I could come around to it.

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