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June 03, 2007

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mahathir_fan

But nobody died on June 4th on Tiananmen Square...

Video evidence: http://youtube.com/watch?v=igsW5yQ6428

Fast forward to 5:57 time.
(Movie clip time:5:57) Student said:
Many people say that at Tiananmen square about 2,000 were shot or perhaps several hundred were
shot. On the square were tanks that crushed people and students etc. etc.
I would like to stress that I did not witness this a bit.

mahathir_fan

But nobody died on Tiananmen Square on June 4th..according to an eye witness

Video evidence:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=igsW5yQ6428
Fast forward to 5:57 time.
(Movie clip time:5:57)
Many people say that at Tiananmen square about 2,000 were shot or perhaps several hundred were
shot. On the square were tanks that crushed people and students etc. etc.
I would like to stress that I did not witness this a bit.

mahathir_fan

"People's Liberation Army troops and tanks crushed the student-led demonstrations in the historic Beijing square on June 4, 1989, killing hundreds, possibly thousands."

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/6/4/worldupdates/2007-06-04T115842Z_01_NOOTR_RTRMDNC_0_-301367-2&sec=Worldupdates

This is another example of how the media continues to brainwash the population. They first reported that several thousands died 18 years ago on the first day. Then a few days later, they printed a correction, that the number was more likely in the hundreds. Now, 18 years later, again they try to say that perhaps several thousands died ignoring their earlier "correction".

Also, the tanks and troops did not crush the student-led protests. At around 3-4am that morning, the student leaders after consulting with the military officers decided to disband their protest. They left the square peacefully, most left by 6am. Nobody was hurt. This was what the eyewitness in the video said (my earlier post). He was one of the leaders there.

The fighting and deaths on June 4th had occured elsewhere in Beijing involving a different group of "protestors" with the military that night and some of it the next day. It isn't clear who were these protestors, some sources said that they were mainly factory workers, also it isn't clear that they were unprovoked attacks as many of the Tiananmen video showed tanks set ablazed suggesting that both sides had exchanged fires.

Anybody who has the interest can do their own amateur research and get the same conclusion as I had stated above. So its quite a bit of wonder why reporters "cannot" do such research but continue to publish to create a sort of "aura" that "students were crushed by tanks".

I want to call on anyone who has the time, to stop reading about the few paragraphs on Tiananmen written by reporters but to do your own research and make sure you get both sides of the story.

I used to think too that Tiananmen was about tanks crushing students until one day I decided to do my own research and found out things were more complicated that it first appeared.

The reason why it is still hard to have a civil discussion about this issue is that whenever someone says that "Tiananmen was not a Massacre", he gets beat up by an emotional mob. That's what happened in HK just a few weeks ago right? So his freedom of speech is violated by the very people who supposedly supports freedom of speech.



Charles Liu

According to a retrospective by Columbia Univ. School of Journalism:

http://archives.cjr.org/year/98/5/tiananmen.asp

"The Myth of Tiananmen
And the Price of a Passive Press
...
as far as can be determined from the available evidence, no one died that night in Tiananmen Square."

Thousands of students died?

Sources like our own NSA agents, as well as Chinese dissidents like Dr. Jiang Yanyong who penned a petition, all states the casualty count is much lower than the hystical, sensational count originally given.

Correct all we want, the damage has already been done.

mahathir_fan

They have no intention to correct. They want to keep the unsuspected masses misled. They are propagandists using "journalism" as a passport to do mind control.

So we have to be vigilant and demand them to show evidence. If they don't show evidence we will expose their lies.

also, notice how the English press is lately on a road to villianizing President Putin.

btw, where is the angry mob that is suppose to be after me for saying that Tiananmen was not a massacre? seems too civil around here.

For 13 years ,I thought that Tiananmen was a massacre. I even had a heated debate once with a citizen from China over the matter. I didn't know much about the incident then, just what I read in the papers. I am afterall not a Chinese citizen, and had not been to China even once at that time. At around 2004, I decided to do my own research to strengthen my arguments to help the pro-democracy camp. I began to demand evidences. And the more I researched and demanded such evidences, the more I drifted away from considering it a massacre.

In my case, the truth was eventually told. The people who tried to use lies to dramatize their struggle had lost all credibility.

e.r.

Mr. M.F., the "angry mob" already knows your nonsenses and has learnt not to pay attention to them. In some cases indifference is the best answer. Sorry for your frustration, we can't do anything for you.

Best

mahathir_fan


When you do your June 4th remembrance of the fallen, do remind yourself one thing, are you doing it in honour of those fallen students who were killed by the PLA or are you honouring the troublemakers who had launched attacks on the PLA by burning their tanks? Because if you think you are honouring the fallen students who were doing a peaceful protests, then recall from the video evidence that I had posted earlier that they had peacefully disbanded and left the square by 6am. One of the student leaders went on camera and bore eyewitness that none of his protestors died that morning at Tiananmen Square. So it is very probable that you are simply honouring a different group of people who died that day, possibly hooligans or gangsters seeking to create chaos in the midst of the confusion.

At the end of the day, the student led protests that was by and large peaceful, ended without any bloodshed in a peaceful manner.

If you watch the full video on youtube link that I sent, you will see that the student leaders by and large wanted their protest to be peaceful. At the end of the day, they delivered that objective.

The confrontation and deaths on June 4th happened with a different group of people, outside the control of the student led protests and not part of the student protest. Like I said, it still isn't clear who these people were and if they had planned on a violent protests or if they were protests at all. Also, by June 4th several prominent student leaders have whisked away and left the country.

This is why it is wrong to think of June 4th as the day the PLA crushed the student led protests with tanks, because the student led protests ended peacefully without any bloodshed.

Don't believe me, good. Do your own research.

Charles Liu

Here's another article by Gregory Clark on Tiananmen mis-reporting and pack journalism:

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20040915gc.html

And here's an eye witness, Gram Earhshaw:

http://www.earnshaw.com/memoirs/content.cfm?ID=16

What's interesting is accorging to Earnshaw, another reporter, Elisabet Pisani, had left the square in the dark.

Pisani, who reported killing in the square, actually left before
break of dawn, at least 2 hours has passed according to the description of light.

How could she have seen killing or tank rolling over students?

mahathir_fan

"Here's another article by Gregory Clark on Tiananmen mis-reporting and pack journalism:"

This isn't pack journalism after 20 years. This is a deliberate attempt to mislead the people by some journalists who carry ulterior motives and to further their personal activism. Journalists who continue to say that tanks had rolled over the student protests are probably holding grudges against the Chinese government and is using this opportunity as well as many others to discredit it and to bad mouth it.

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