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March 23, 2008

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» Rebecca MacKinnon Picks Sides, All Of Them from Democracy Project
Rebecca MacKinnon’s blogsite is a frequent must visit for news and views about the impact and evolution of the internet, particularly in China. She brings deep experience and empathy. However, Ms. MacKinnon also brings her Obama-like relativism to her... [Read More]

Comments

Charles Liu

Well, looks like Yahoo has decided to censor search results in US:

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A0S0207Qg.ZHqE4Al1yJzbkF?p=Tibet+riot+wanted&fr=yfp-t-113&ei=utf-8&js=1&x=wrt

Above search found NOTHING, while other search engine returned content.

Charles Liu

It's a darn shame that in ya'all's partisanship, you have choosen to ignore the 241 police officers that had been injured, 23 critically, and a police officer had been killed by the mob:

http://www.javno.com/en/world/clanak.php?id=134004

What about their human rights? Would you want that happen to our own police?

Charles Liu

James Miles certainly is a "foreign journalist", and he was not kicked out of Tibet:'

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/03/20/tibet.miles.interview/

Chris

Your last paragraph is summing up quite nicely what I think about this situation. Thanks for putting it into words! ;) Just for those two sentences I would provide a caveat.

"Do I think that the Tibetan people's lives (and the lives of many other ethnicities who now live in Tibet) would be better off if China granted independence to Tibet tomorrow?" Better off in what sense? Materially, spiritually, ... ? Does that include all people who live there today or only ethnic Tibetans?

"Would Tibet be free of human rights problems if it became independent tomorrow?" No, no country is. However, the situation in varios respects would be likely to improve tremendously (for Tibetans at least).

However, one might think about these questions hypothetically but has to bear in mind that practically the question of independence is totally out of question. China will never (in the forseeable future at least) give up its claim on Tibet as long as it is a functioning state, be it under CCP rule or even if it would become democratic. I guess if anything the means to do it might change slightly under a different regime. I do think a little bit of realism wouldn't do the Tibet activists and the concerned public that bad.
Thats just my 2 cents though.

Best regards

mahathir_fan

"That's why the Dalai Lama advocated some kind of negotiated autonomy instead of independence as the only realistic solution at this point."

Isn't that already a reality? It is called the "TIBET AUTONOMOUS REGION!!". Autonomous I repeat.


Here's a video I posted on youtube this weekend to show what Tibet was like when it was ruled by the Dalai Lama:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFSS826ETlk

And Happy Easter to everyone. This is my first attempt at a "sermon". I posted a video on Christ's death on the cross. Enjoy if you are a Christian! Happy Easter!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-vJN1l71NQ

In closing, before we talk about freedom and independence for the Tibetans, the first thing Tibetans need is to rid off the century old Buddhism believe on reincarnation to elect their leaders etc. etc.. It is so sad to see them not put any questioning on their own belief system.

clarke

Chuck...tsk, tsk..."241 police officers that had been injured, 23 critically..." How many Tibetans were injured, killed or detained? Don't know? Or frightened of the truth like the gov't you defend?

As for Miles' report, if you'd read it you'd know he also reported gunshots being fired by Chinese troops, raids into Tibetan homes, beatings, abductions to unknown locations and attempts to cover up bloodstains on the streets...

Like a good ol' red guard you toe the line, nothing more.

clarke

One more fact - Miles was forced to leave when his visa expired. He wasn't permitted to renew as is standard procedure for journalists operating in societies that adhere to the most basic freedoms.

Charles Liu

@clarke

So much for your cold-war warior honesty. BTW I ain't from mainland China, ain't never been citizen of the PRC a day in my life.

Here's what Miles said:

"That they were very worried that if they did move in decisively at that early stage of the unrest that bloodshed would ensue in their efforts to control it.
...
So in effect what they did was sacrifice the livelihoods of many, many ethnic Han Chinese in the city for the sake of letting the rioters vent their anger.
...
then being able to move in gradually with troops with rifles that they occasionally let off with single shots, apparently warning shots, in order to scare everybody back into their homes and put an end to this."

xiao xi liu

Here is a true story told by a friend. A couple of years ago on a World Conference on Women she met two groups of Tibetan women delegates, one from the Tibetan autonomous region of China and one from
a NGO representing the “Free-Tibet”sponsored by the major western powers.

The woman delegates from the western NGO claimed that the Tibetan culture was being destroyed by Han Chinese and the only way to rescue it is
to let the Dalai Lama come back to lead the“Independent
Great Tibet” or “Highly Autonomous Great Tibetan Area.” They voiced
out their claims in English, so that their claims were easily passed to and
quoted by the western reporters in their articles.

When the Tibetan women from the Tibet Autonomous Region tried to discuss the Tibetan Cultural issue with their sisters from overseas they found no way to communicate
between them because the latter do not speak Tibetan and they do not speak
English. And the western reporters didn't bother to listen to what the Tibetan-speaking Tibetans have to say about their culture through interpreters.

In the end, the claim of the “Tibetan culture being
destroyed”was voiced in the western media by the Tibetans who do not speak Tibetan and was widely quoted while the voices of the Tibetan who is still speaking Tibetan were cnvieniently ignored.

I suspect even if the western reporters quoted those mainland Tibetans' words, through interpreter, they will autobatically assume that whatever those Tibetan say they only echo the party line and therefore not trustworthy.

Since anything the Chinese news media has to say about Tibet and Tibetans in the past decades is almost undoubtly regarded as share lies in the west, since the loud voice of the Free Tibet in the west mostly speaks for those who had escaped from Tibet decades ago, sadly, it is the millions of Tibetans living in Tibet today who speak Tibetan, not English, that have become literally voiceless to the outside world.

Charles Liu

Xiao Xi, those kids that endangered world class relic in China to hang giant flag on the Great Wall are linked to Canadian Prime Minister's advisor Tenzin Khangsar.

The fact Tenzin Khangsar, ex-Canadian Tibet Committee leader is linked with TSF that pulled the stunt, is public information that can be found on Google.

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