Why Microsoft censorship in China matters to everybody

Seems like I have created a bit of a stir with my last post on Microsoft's censorship of MSN Spaces Chinese blogs. Lots of interesting trackbacks and comments there. Definitely worth a read-through.

Sounds like Microsoft's Robert Scoble may be softening his stance a bit.  It seems like there are a lot of conversations and arguments going on internally at Microsoft that he can't talk about. (UPDATE: Robert says he hasn't softened his view; he's just trying to understand the other side.) Two other Microsoft employees have blogged about the situation here and here, defending their company's China censorship policy as a necessary evil.  Click through those links, read their full posts, and let them know what you think. (Update: Mat Marshall at Siliconbeat has updated his report with an official statement from Microsoft. More justifications.)

I liked the reaction of Imagethief, blogging from China:

As for the "obeying local laws defense", I have criticized that in this space previously. Certainly China is going to impose unique constraints on foreign companies operating within its borders, and I don't think the solution is necessarily for those companies to quit China (not least because my job depends on them being here). But the question that situations --and excuses-- like this raise for American tech-media companies is this: where is your ethical horizon? Every country has its own laws and regulations. Some are more egregious than others. Some are indefensible. When do a company's values supercede its desire to make money and generate shareholder return? Does that point exist in the absence of public scrutiny? Perhaps some American tech-media companies would like to articulate what kind of "local laws and regulations" would push them too far?

Hear hear.  Meanwhile, according to Forbes, Michael Anti's appeals to MSN customer service have gone completely unanswered. While MSN Spaces serves thousands of Chinese bloggers, they appear to have no China-focused customer service. Are we surprised?

In my view, this issue goes far beyond China. The behavior of companies like Microsoft, Yahoo! and others - and their eager willingness to comply with Chinese government demands - shows a fundamental lack of respect for users and our fundamental human rights. Globally.

Microsoft, Yahoo! and others are helping to institutionalize and legitimize the integration of censorship into the global IT business model.

Do not count on these companies to protect your human rights, if those rights are threatened by the over-stretching hand of any government anywhere on the planet.

If these American technology companies have so few moral qualms about giving in to Chinese government demands to hand over Chinese user data or censor Chinese people's content, can we be sure they won't do the same thing in response to potentially illegal demands by an over-zealous government agency in our own country? Can we trust that they're not already doing so?

When it comes down to  interests of government vs. interests of the individual it seems pretty clear where their default position lies. 

Will users and investors push for an attitude change? Can we convince them that disrespecting the universal human rights of users anywhere and everywhere will be bad for their business in the long run? Or will we all sit there like frogs in water being brought very slowly to a boil? 

Comments

[BGW]

While 'obeying local laws' is what Microsoft is using to defend itself, it seems to me like they are avoiding the central issue. The question has been raised numerous times and I have yet to see anyone at Microsoft address it: 'Why did Microsoft apparently feel the need to remove or block this blog completely, worldwide?' There may be reasons for this, technical or otherwise, that I do not understand. It may have been a mistake. Or maybe something appears to be different than it actually is in reality. Whatever the case, I think that we need to hear this question addressed. As far as I can understand, 'local laws' have no bearing on what Microsoft does with its services outside of China.

How Microsoft and other companies work in China is an important and complex issue that needs to be wrestled with both within and without the Chinese context. But this instance seems to be a case where someone or something in one country succeeded in disrupting the flow of information not only within that country, but on a global scale, with the cooperation of a global company. To think that this never happens is obviously naive, but like Scoble inferred in his first post, it is an issue that we ignore to our own peril.

[Rebecca MacKinnon]

BGW, yes, you're absolutely right. Thanks for adding that.

[Robert Scoble]

Just to be clear, I haven't softened my view. I was trying to explain the complexities of this issue.

One thing I dislike in people is when they just are religious about their point of view and can't see value in other points of view. I find that if you want to change people's view that you must get in their shoes first and figure out how to walk in them for a while.

It's an art very few people on the Internet practice.

[Rebecca MacKinnon]

Robert, yes, you're right, it's good to understand others' point of view. Perhaps I misread your last post as defending that point of view to some extent. I hope you'll elaborate eventually on your progress in convincing people over there.

I too can see their point of view and understand it. A lot of people agree with them. But I believe rather strongly that they are on the wrong side of history.

[Monty]

I find that if you want to change people's view that you must get in their shoes first and figure out how to walk in them for a while.

Robert, with all due respect, that's a completely wrongheaded notion in this case. I understand why Microsoft did what they did; I simply do not agree for ethical reasons. You're assuming that there's some deep and mysterious rationale to Microsoft's decision, when in fact it's obvious that it was motivated by business calculus: Microsoft wants to be in the Chinese market, and doesn't want to aggravate the Chinese government. How else can you read it?

[bill bishop]

and google looks like it may self-censoring google video in china
http://bbb.typepad.com/billsdue/2006/01/google_blocking.html

[Easycure]

When it comes down to it, it's all about the almight dollar. If Microsoft begins feeling like following Chinese government is going to hurt their bottom line, they'll change their own policies. Until then, watch what happens....

- crickets chirping -

[Chuck Pelto]

TO: BGW
RE: Something We've Known for a Long Time

"How Microsoft and other companies work in China is an important and complex issue that needs to be wrestled with both within and without the Chinese context." -- BGW

All business is complex. But none of it is rocket-science.

Many of us have known that Micrsoft was evil for a very long time. And whereas it was meant in jest back in the 80s, today we realize how close to the truth it was in the first pace.

When I saw tha Microsoft was in-bed with the Communist Chinese in the management of their internet, I knew the truth of the matter. It was blatantly obvious to all but the most benighted observer.

"But this instance seems to be a case where someone or something in one country succeeded in disrupting the flow of information not only within that country, but on a global scale, with the cooperation of a global company." -- BGW

Now we see, in this matter, the next step in the logical progression of Microsoft protecting its business interests, at the expense of everyone.

As some wag put it, over 2000 years ago, "The love of money is the root of all evil."

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[When it is time to hang the capitalists, they will sell us the rope. -- Stalin]

P.S. As for the benighted amonst US, as long as you buy Microsoft products, you're part of the problem.

[GFK]

"In my view, this issue goes far beyond China. The behavior of companies like Microsoft, Yahoo! and others - and their eager willingness to comply with Chinese government demands - shows a fundamental lack of respect for users and our fundamental human rights."

Are you surprised?

Companies as big as Microsoft find it very hard to innovate and compete with smaller, more flexible businesses. In every major industry, from Pharma to Steel, the big companies look to the government to help stifle small new businesses and reduce competition.

Microsoft is no different. While they haven't been very successful at it here in the states, with their knee-jerk censorship in China and billions in "donations" to India they may get more consideration from the Governments of these developing countries.

If we don't like it we can buy Mac's and Sony Playstations as we are increasingly doing.

[GFK]

Gee Robert, thanks for staying so open-minded about the blogosphere and not jumping to conclusions.

Oh, and thanks for the pedantry and condescension too!

"One thing I dislike in people is when they just are religious about their point of view and can't see value in other points of view. I find that if you want to change people's view that you must get in their shoes first and figure out how to walk in them for a while."

- from above post

"Already there are plenty of people who took me to task for reacting like a blogger and not waiting until I had checked with all the parties."

- from Roberts blog Rebecca linked to.