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April 03, 2008


Charles Liu

US citizen Chi Mak got 25 years, after AT&T helped US government in prosecuting him, after trumpped up espionage charge was thrown out and re-charged with cilvil offence like export control vioation, and political charge the he's an unregistered "foreign agent" - only because of his ancestry.

The same FARA law was levied against German Americans suspected of being unpatriotic "Nazi Collaborators."

While Chi Mak was only guilty of scholarly exchange of public domain presentations he gave during IEEE international conference in 2004 on things for building electric cars.


One word: Boycott the Olympics :)
It makes me happy :)

When it comes to Hu Jia, I have to demand that the Chinese government expose the real reason for his arrest. Is he a suspected foreign agent? If it is just about those few articles that he wrote, why were they so significant?

There is a difference. At least the US jails people with foreign names. China is jailing its own citizens, and last I checked, they kiss ass the foreigners. It seems like if Hu Jia was a foreigner, he would have gotten away. Remember those Canadian Tibetan protestors at the Great Wall who were promptly deported from China instead of being jailed and abused and gang raped in Chinese jails?
I want to see China jail more foreigners!!! Like the US!


As a Chinese girl who really respect Tibetan and their culture, I'm really worried about the future of China, including Tibet. During this special year with growing economy of China, throe always gets along with progressive upheaval. If this crisis is not dealt with properly ,it maybe engenders infaust factors to steady change of China society, which maybe makes China become the next Latin America. Apparently, recessionary economy of China will aggravate global recessionary economy in this year. Actually, I think mature democracy and educated civil society is the ultima direction and trend where China will develop. However, China is on the transitional track where all kinds of social systems are still expected to improve and be steady. Just imagine that if mature democracy and educated civil society are the fertile soil in which the democratic seeds grow healthily, how can democratic seeds grow healthily in an immature democracy and developing civil society so as to gestate democratic fruitage? Otherwise, China will become the next queasy Philippines or Indonesia. However, I believe China is forming its fertile soil ----mature democracy and educated civil society.
Furthermore, if you know well about the background of China leaders, you will find that they are all idealists and patriots with devotional beliefs. Although they claim publicly that they are zendics, they behave themselves just like devotional Christians or Muslems. What’s different is that they believe in communism. Premier Wen jiabao graduated from Nankai School where ex- Premier Chou Enlai had ever studied. Like ex- Premier Chou Enlai, Premier Wen jiabao is loved and esteemed with Chinese because of his sincere emotion. What’s not forgotten is that both Premier Wen jiabao and the probable next Chinese president Xi Jingping were persecuted during the Culture Revolution when majority of Chinese suffered a lot. So I believe nowadays Chinese leaders don’t search for domineering empire at all which will result in backslide and pursue gradualism social reform so as to ensure stormy revolution don’t wash out the nutrient of the forming fertile soil----the latest economic and social fruitage might be destroyed. Thus , I believe China will develop into a mature democratic country where all respects of society are improved, which needs time. As for Tibet issue, it’s really an intractable problem. On one hand, it’s impossible for China to give up Tibet; on the other hand, the concept of two systems in one country may not apply for Tibet issue ,for Tibet issue has its complexity and particularity.
Finally, China is different from South Africa , for there don’t exist apartheid in China (which maybe most of occidentals wouldn’t approve of me). Carefully referring to Chinese laws, you’ll find that apartheid and ethnic discrimination are banned by law. However, ethnic estrangement exists to some degree because of ethnic personality. And Chinese leaders handle the ethnic issue with great care. And I think if China is wise enough , she must let foreign reporters into Tibet. Otherwise, China will lose the trust in the western world, which maybe has been a fact for a long time while China also don’t trust the west because of historic problem And what’s important is that foreign reporters should give up their prejudice ,stereotyping of China and ideology so as to ensure their viewpoints are objective.



What, no love for Gregg W. Bergersen?


I'm not sure I agree with your pessimism. The Internet isn't the best place to take stock of Chinese opinion anyways, particularly from the mainland where institutionalized fear and violence prevail.

What are your students saying?

Even in places without a tyrannical CCP playing Big Brother the Internet rarely fosters "conversation". The ridiculous posturing as evidenced in the comments you cite seems to be baked into the cake.

As for the Olympics, the problem lies with the Chinese Communist Party...there's a huge pile-up in the making, as our friend Dave points out. When it comes to the games you can't say/do one thing within your borders and then tell the rest of the world something different.

The CCP is proving they can't handle the heat, that they don't deserve the responsibilities of hosting.

One tell-tale sign of a non-partisan organization is when both the CCP & the Bush administration accuse it of "bias". Amnesty International's report is spot on. Human rights are non-negotiable, they've got nothing to do with "long-cherished ideological frameworks". The CCP would certainly like them to be, of course, just as the Bush administration has tried and failed to turn climate change into an ideology.

In the end, both Tibet and Hu Jia will prevail. The CCP, as has been abundantly clear for too long, is history. The sooner their own citizens get it, the sooner they'll be respected beyond their own borders.


"And I think if China is wise enough , she must let foreign reporters into Tibet. Otherwise, China will lose the trust in the western world,"

I share your enthuthiasm, but past experience has shown that inviting Western media in is of no use. The Western media still continues on their bigot-ed way of reporting. The Western media must first shed off its bigotry for there to be constructive dialogue. Case in point: Tiananmen 89. There were lots of reporters in China in 89, yet they all reported 2000 people died on the square, about protestors crushed by tanks, yet those things never happened. See my video and rate it for evidence of my point: http://youtube.com/watch?v=SbX0gAk3zRA

Instead of inviting foreign media into Tibet, what is a better approach is for there to be more Chinese reporters of credible integrity. I am calling for organizations that mirrors that of AP and Reuters but of Chinese or Asian origins and that takes great care to prevent itself from being infiltrated by Western spies (don't be like Al_jazeera that has lost all its past glories) and also free of influence by Chinese government. Think Steven Gan's : Malaysiakini.

". When it comes to the games you can't say/do one thing within your borders and then tell the rest of the world something different."

Where is the piece of paper that was signed by the Chinese government about its commitment to the Olympic games with regards to human rights?

Last I checked, it was the Western media that came up with this fictitious expectation. The Chinese government did promise5open reporting and access DURING THE GAMES. What date is it today? It is April 5, 2008. The Games does not start until August 8, 2008. When the internet is still censored on August 8, 2008, then you have a right to complain - o/w shut up. There is no committment to loosen any laws until August 8, 2008, and those loose laws will be valid for only 2 weeks. Get it?

I am not for CPC or against it. I am against some of its policies like censorship and jailing of dissidents of Chinese origins.

When they jail Hu Jia, yet they merely deported those Canadian Tibetan protestors, I am so disgusted. It should be the other way round. The Chinese government should treat its own dissidents nicely, and punish those foreign protestors - send them to the nastiest jails and have them gang raped by fellow inmates. I think they have no balls in this matter because they don't want to get into a diplomatic row. So yeah, if you are an American citizen, you can do all the protest you want in China and the worst that can happen is you get deported. You won't go to jail. This is not fair for people like Hu Jia.

Censorship is another point is bad. China should not censor, because access to the internet already exist a natural barrier. I was watching a documentary last night on how the English government forbid their people from translating the Bible from Latin to English in the 13th century. Because of increasing ignorance in the Latin language, more and more English Christians were unable to read the bible. This ignorance in the bible led the English people to be more and more dependent on the Roman pope. Yet, they outlawed any English translations of the Bible. But when the English translation was made available centuries later, it freed the people from the strangle hold of Rome.

Now, with censorship, more Chinese are only going to look to the West for their "alternative" news. This is dangerous.

All those good pro-China youtube videos have one thing in common, all made by Chinese living overseas. That should be good reason to not censor the net. We need more information soldiers to fight against bigoted Western propaganda!

Finally, do not trust Amnesty national. 20 years ago, they said Dr. Mahathir abuse his powers in Malaysia, through things like Operasai Lalang, or the Judicial Crisis of 1987 yet until today, Amnesty has yet to bring formal charges against our formal dictator. Why? Because their past accusations were baseless. I'm sure they said the same thing about Presdient Suharto as well, yet Suharto died last year a FREE man. So all they have been spewing out in the last 20 years about these South East Asian nations were lies. All I ever got from them are their smelly saliva. To prove their credibility, they need to go back and bring formal charges against our former dictators! Get them before their spirit is taken to heaven!


mahatir_fan: When it comes to Hu Jia, I have to demand that the Chinese government expose the real reason for his arrest. Is he a suspected foreign agent?

No. Hua Jia was charged with subversion of state power on the grounds that he wrote several essays calling for the overthrow of the Communist Party. One significant thing is that the essay that he wrote on human rights and the Olympics was *not* used the basis of the charges.

mahatir_fan: If it is just about those few articles that he wrote, why were they so significant?

Because it was argued that he was trying to overthrow the government.

Personally I think it is silly to argue that freedom of speech in China is anywhere near the levels in the United States. But just because China is much more repressive than the US doesn't mean that I think it is a good idea to overthrow the government.

China has been through two revolutions in the last 100 years, each one leaving it worse than before. There's no reason to think that a third revolution is going to leave things much better off, so I'm willing to tolerant government repression given the lack of any better alternatives.

clarke: In the end, both Tibet and Hu Jia will prevail. The CCP, as has been abundantly clear for too long, is history.

Eventually the CCP will fall. Eventually the United States will collapse, mankind will become extinct, and the earth will fall into the sun.

People have been predicting the fall of the CCP since 1949. Maybe it will collapse tomorrow, but I wouldn't bet on it. The Communist Party right now probably has more popular support right now and a stronger hold on government than at anytime in its history.

One thing that I detest about Marxism is the idea that things are predestined to happen. My own belief is that history is not determined, and whether the CCP collapses next year or five hundred years from now is determined by the choices people including you and I make.

Personally, I've made some choices that I think will help prolong the life of the CCP.


clarke: I'm not sure I agree with your pessimism. The Internet isn't the best place to take stock of Chinese opinion anyways, particularly from the mainland where institutionalized fear and violence prevail.

There has been lots of damage done in the world by people so sure about their ideology that they just couldn't accept that the world runs different than people think that it should.

One reason that I distrust "revolutionary democrats" is that they are so sure that people must be living in fear that they can't accept the possibility that a repressive, authoritarian government might actual have some genuine popular support, and that people who have some grudging support for the Communist Party (like me for example), might not be totally brainwashed and idiotic drones.

(Also, in case you bring out the if they are so popular why don't they have an election, the trouble with elections is that the CCP might be relatively popular now, but they might not be a year from now.)

It's been the same cycle. We are good they are evil. We come to power and destroy the evil ones. But things aren't perfect, we disagree among ourselves. There must be spies and saboteurs among us, and pretty soon you end up with "enemies of the people."

To me, real democracy means admitting that people you disagree with might actually have a point.



Thanks again for the information on Chi Mak. I read it and it is very interesting. It is another Wen Ho Lee case but this time, I think because of lack of publicity and public outcry, he is serving jailtime. You are like the voice of the opposition and dissent on Rebecca's blogs.

Still, the US is jailing people with foreign names. I still have not seen China jailing people with foreign names. It seems like if you are an American or Canadian and you break Chinese laws in China, you will only get deported. Nothing more.

This is not fair to the Chinese people. We get arrested everywhere, in US or in China.

China needs to start arresting Americans like how Americans are arresting the Chinese.

Also, Chinese official news agency Xinhua is seldom involved in any American bashing propaganda compared to the American media which is always bashing up China. Chi Mak case could have been an excellent scapegoat to stir up anti-American sentiments in China but Xinhua doesn't even publish that story. This is sad. I'm sure if China arrested an American living in CHina, the American media would be all over the story.

My question is: Is China at war with America or not? It seems like Americans' answer to this question would be a yes, (China was rated as the 3rd enemy of US) not a real war but some sort of a cold war, but the Chinese answer to this is would be a No. By the actions of the Chinese government censoring the internet, I fear that the Chinese people do not realize that a war is being waged against them by the Americans. We must uncensor the internet so that more Chinese can have access to news like Chi Mak so that they can be mobilized or at least be prepared.

Charles Liu

Twofish, Hu Jia was subjected to some sort of "state secret" prosecution when he released some stuff to foreigners.

Same thing happened to US citizen Chi Mak here. We made AT&T bug his phone, prosecuted him on export exemption law when espionage charge fell apart due to proscutorial misconduct.

Oh yeah, and we tacked on FARA charge, law that was written during WWII to thorw vocal German Americans in jail.

Chi Mak got 25 years for scholarly exchange of IEEE presentation he gave in 2004.

That stuff is pulic domain, and remains on IEEE.org for anyone in China to download.

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