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July 06, 2008

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Han solo

To Twofish,(refer to : Twofish
| July 08, 2008 at 10:54 PM )
Quote "The Manchu emperors had a problem of getting people to see themselves as "Chinese" even though ethnically they were very different. The way they did that was to define "Chinese" in terms of scholarship and academic advancement and to deemphasize race and ethnicity. The Manchu agenda of being accepted as Chinese also fit in with the agendas of Catholic missionaries like Matteo Ricci "

Matteo Ricci, (1552-1610),was one of the greatest western missionary that ever came to China(Ming Dynasty).He introduced Christianity,astronomy,mathematic,geography,and various modern science into Ming;at the same time,he was the first ever western scholar who could master Chinese Classical Language (Wenyan),then later on he translated the Confucian classics into Latin, with assistance from the scholar Xu Guangqi.
During Manchu Dynasty (1636-1912),all those barbaric emperors were busy burning books,putting Han scholars in jail,and murdering folks.
Mr.Twofish,either you have forgotten your Chinese history lessons,or you had read the wrong text books.

Han solo

To Twofish again,
Quote"What the Manchus in the 19th century did was to appear to be different things to the different groups that they ruled. To Han Chinese, they portrayed themselves as patrons of Confucian classical learning."
Mr.Twofish,you are really very ignorant of Manchu history and Confucius teaching.
满清入关以后,满清皇帝虽然礼遇传教士,鼓励对西欧输出儒学,但是却禁止本国人民了解西方文明。
After Manchus stepped onto the southern part of the Great Wall,even though the Manchu Emperor treated the western missionary with respect,encouraged the export of Confucius Teaching into western Europe,but in turn prohibited her own civilians to understand western culture.

这不仅仅是因为满清皇帝意识到了西方文明对自己皇权的威胁,更重要的是满清的皇权因为有旗人军事和官僚集团支撑,能够通过无限扩大到民间的文字狱,将社会舆论的引导权从文人手中夺到自己的手里,由此皇权就有能力阻止中国向西方学习和平等地交流,使华夏文明只输出不输入。
Manchu Emperors realized that western culture is a threat to it's imperial authority,but most importantly,the Manchu imperial authority had the protection and support from Manchu Flag military and bureaucrat,so that the Emperors were able to impose "word prison" into every corner of the society,resulting in the inability of the society's intellectuals to form or conduct public opinions,that means only the emperors can "create" public opinions,thus the imperial authority was able to stop CHINA 's learning from the WEST,and exchanging with the west on even ground,the end result being Chung Hua culture could only export but no import.

西方文明本来是和华夏文明互补和平等的,西方文明需要华夏文明的平等和仁爱来反抗他们的等级压迫;华夏文明需要西方文明的公民意识和宗教来对反抗我们的王神和一的皇权。
Originally,western culture and Chung Hua culture were on even par and enriching each other.Equality,humanity and charity,all these qualities from Chung Hua culture,were absorbed into the western culture to counteract their own class suppression;whereas westerner's religion,and it's wareness of citizen's obligations ,were needed by Chung Hua culture to counteract our own" God-King" imperial authority.


西方文明通过和华夏文明交流实现了自己的现代化,可是华夏文明中的人文精神却被满清扼杀了,并且还全面阻止了华夏文明向西方学习。这使华夏文明丧失了通过与西方交流,实现自身升级现代化的机会,满清不仅导致了中国在近代的全面落后,而且还阻碍了西方文明和华夏文明的全面融合。

Through the exchange with Chung Hua culture,the western culture was finally modernized,but Manchu imperial authority,not satisfied with strangling our spirit of humanity,went on to impose a complete stop on the Chung Hua culture's learning from the west.The opportunity to be upgraded and modernized,through the exchange with western culture,was lost.The Manchu Dynasty,not only was the cause of the full-scale backward of China in the modern time,also impeded the full integrating of western and Chung Hua culture.

下面我们就来说说满清的无限扩大到民间的文字狱的效果。

由于文字狱扩大到了民间文人,使民间独立修史成为不可能,这就使满清皇帝能够将社会舆论权夺到自己手中,满清皇帝们便可以放心大胆地胡编乱造了。之所以满清皇帝可以搞长达150年的扩大到民间的文字狱,是因为他们有绝对依附于他的旗人军事和官僚集团。

The end results of the unlimited expansion of "word prison"into the the civilian society by the Manchu.
Because "word prison"was expanded into the civilian intellectuals,the society's independent recording of history has become impossible,thus the Manchu Emperors were able to control the public voice,and boldly said and wrote whatever they like.Why was Manchu emperors were able to make this "word prison"to last 150 years(Manchu Dynasty lasted 260 plus years),the reason being they had the complete support of the Manchu military and the bloc of Manchu bureaucrat .


普通汉族王朝的皇帝的统治需要依靠官员,而汉族王朝的官员的来源是什么呢?就是来自于民间的文人。所以汉族王朝的皇帝一方面依靠自己的“天子”身份(神权背景)压制文人,但另一方面却不得不依靠这些文人。所以,明朝的文字狱只搞了30年就不敢干了,而且还不敢杀民间的文人。明朝皇帝如果真的杀光了有社会责任感的文人,谁来帮他管理国家呢?

The ruling of emperors of Han ethnic required bureaucrat,which in turn came from the society's intellectuals.The fact that the emperors of Han ethnic were "son of heaven",and this God-given-authority was used to suppress and control the intellectuals,on the other hand,the emperors depended on these intellectuals.That was why,the Ming dynasty's "word prison" only lasted for 30 years, not only Ming dynasty dared not continue the "word prison",they dared not murder the intellectuals.If all the intellectuals with a social responsive heart,were killed by the Ming emperors,there would be no one left to manage and run the country.

满清则不同,它所依靠的是旗人军事和官僚集团,不是来自于民间的文人官僚集团。旗人还掌握绝对的军事权力,一方面他手上有足够的暴力(旗人军事集团)可以搞无限扩大到民间的文字狱;另一方面他也不需要依靠汉族文人官僚集团治国(依靠旗人官僚集团),杀光了汉族有社会责任感的文人也不会动摇他们的统治,反而使他们的统治更巩固。这样,他就可以对全社会的知识分子大开杀戒了。
Manchu dynasty was different,it relied on the Manchurian military and manchurian bureaucrat bloc.Manchurian commanded absolute military power,on one hand they were able to impose "word prison" onto the society,backed up by ample violence;on the other hand, bureaucrat of Han ethnic were not needed to manage the country,to kill off all the Han intellectuals with a social responsive heart,would not harm their ruling,on the contrary,would only strengthen their ruling.This way,they could kill any of the intellectuals of the society at will.

从中明开始的思想解放和与西方的交流无疑对皇权是极大的挑战,满清皇帝们个个精明强干,对此认识很深,绝对依附于皇权的旗人军事和官僚集团使他们有能力扼杀思想解放和禁绝于西方交流。

The liberal thinking of the intellectuals of middle Ming dynasty and the resulting cultural exchange with the west,pose a huge challenge towards the imperial authority,the shrewd and powerful emperors knew it all along,they could stop the liberal thinking and at the same time, prohibit the cultural exchange with the west.

明朝的文字狱和满清文字狱对社会的影响截然相反。

明朝的文字狱非但没有让文人们甘心当皇权的奴才,反而造成了文人和官僚与皇权的对立情绪,这为中明以后的思想解放和“非君”打下了伏笔。也正是因为明朝的文人们看到了传统华夏文明中的弊病在于王神合一的皇权,才会有人提出“天子失官,学在西夷”。

Though both Ming and Manchu dynasty had "word prison",but it's effect on the society was absolutely opposite.
Not only the Ming's intellectuals did not willingly become the emperor's minions, on the contrary,the intellectuals and bureaucrat were taking up position to oppose the imperial authority,resulting in the liberal thinking and the "say no to the emperor" movement during Middle Ming.Ming's intellectuals knew that the "God-King" imperial authority was the root of the short-coming of traditional Chung Hua civilization,resulting in the advocating of "When emperor lost the support of the bureaucrat,we have to learn from the West"
满清的文字狱做到了让文人们甘心当皇权的奴才,使整个社会死气沉沉。被外国人暴打了一顿以后,一句“放眼看世界”居然能被封为思想家。殊不知300年明朝的文人们早就放眼看世界了,不但放眼看世界,还要主动向世界学习,所谓“天子失官,学在西夷”。

The Manchu "word prison" had achieved it's goal,turning intellectuals into minions of imperial authority,the whole society was enveloped in the smell of death.Foreigners came and gave him a good bash,only one phrase "open eyes to look at the world",was enough to be crowned as master of thought.Long time ago,during Ming dynasty,intellectuals have been "looking at the world",not only that,they had actively learned from the world,meaning "If the emperor has lost the support of the bureaucrat,he should learn from the western people.

明朝的文字狱对中国社会思想和文化的发展相当于疫苗的作用,肌体暂时有些不适反应,但接下来的却是对毒素的顽强的抵抗力。满清的文字狱对中国社会思想和文化的发展相当于病毒的作用,让华夏社会的思想和文化彻底走向畸形了。大家知道疫苗就是毒性大大减弱的病毒,两者在质上是相同的,区别在于毒性这个量上,可是它们对于一个正常人的肌体的作用却是截然相反的。

To China's social thinking and the development of culture,the Ming's "word prison" acted as a vaccine,the body may have some uneasy reactions,but a strong and persistent reaction against the virus is kicking in.Whereas the Manchu "word prison"acted as a virus,and completely deformed Chung Hua's social thinking and culture.We all know that vaccine is actually weak form of virus,basically they are the same,the difference is in the degree of virulence,yet causing opposite results on a normal body.

两朝文字狱对社会的不同作用,更体现在对华夏文明中人文精神的扼杀上。

The different effects by the "word prison"of Ming and Manchu ,is more profoundly shown on the strangling of the spirit of humanity of Chung Hua culture.

什么叫人文精神?就是人不同于动物的文明精神。动物学家D.莫利斯的《裸猿》发表以后震惊全世界。几乎所有社会性动物都绝对地屈服于本群体中强者和暴力。比如,弱的猿猴会时刻强烈地表达对强的猿猴的从属和依附关系,比如在强的猿猴面前匍匐在地,主动撅起屁股让强的猿猴鸡奸(雄性),由此它们可以活的好一些。

What is the spirit of humanity?It's the cultural spirit that make us different from animals.The publication of the book "Naked Ape",by zoologist D.Morris,shook the world.Nearly all the social animals will absolutely submit to own group's strongest and most powerful and violent.For example,the weaker monkeys will clearly and openly express it's dependency and belonging towards the stronger monkeys,for example,go down low on the ground on all four,stick up the bum high enough in the air to be raped by stronger monkeys (by the anus),so that they can live a better life.


而这些和人类社会的等级制度殊途同归,尤其是和满人的主奴依附关系有着异曲同工之妙。所以动物学家D.莫利斯认为人类不过是没有长毛的猿猴——裸猿。西方现代文明产生不过300多年,但人类从此摆脱了弱者对强者的强烈的从属和依附,摆脱了对暴力的崇拜和恐惧。因此,所谓人文精神就是人类群体中的大多数不惧怕暴力的威胁和平等地看待弱者的文明精神。

This socio-biological theories of rape,is similar to human society's class system,especially readily comparable to the Manchu master-slave relationship.That is why zoologist D.Morris reckoned that human is in fact monkeys and apes with no hair---Naked Apes.Modern western civilization ,is about 300 years old,but human had since shook off the deep belonging and dependency of the weak towards the strong,shook off the worship and fear towards violence. For this reason,so called spirit of humanity ,means that majority of human,not afraid of the threat of violence anymore,and had since treat weaker fellow human with equality.

明朝皇帝对大臣的暴行不是奴性,是权势和暴力。相对于皇帝们的权势和暴力,文人们能够前赴后继不向这种暴力和权势屈服就是我们华夏文明的人文精神,更重要的是这种不向皇权暴力屈服的人文精神在明代是被社会认可的,所以才会有那么多的文人前赴后继。除了不惧怕暴力的威胁,平等的看待社会中弱者也是一个重要的方面。在这个方面,传统华夏文明做得不好,但还是有对弱者施以仁爱的方面。

可是到了满清呢?满人们对主子们的依附和献媚,汉人当奴才而不得,更为严重的是整个社会以当奴才为荣(争相入旗),所有文人全都成了皇权暴力下的狗奴才。也就是汉文明中不向强权和暴力屈服的人文精神彻底没有了。保留的都是对“圣君”的歌颂、对暴力的恐惧、对自己同胞的冷漠,原有的汉族知识分子的“为天地立心,为生民立命,为往圣继绝学,为万世开太平”的社会责任感没有了,有的只是对统治者肉麻的吹捧。被保留和发展的这些不是人文精神而是裸猿的奴性!!!

In Manchu times,its people's dependence and ass-kissing towards the rulers,Han all tried their best to become 奴才= minion , much more serious was the fact the whole society glorify the becoming of minion(all try to turn into banner people)all the intellectuals transformed themself into doggy minions, 奴才 ,dogs,animal.The spirit of civility of Han culture,the option of saying NO to violence and ruthless authority was extinguished completely.What remained was only the praise towards the "sacred emperor",the fear of violence,the cold and indifference towards own race,"To establish heart of Sky and Earth,to look after the livelihood of common people,To continue the teaching of Confucius-Meng Zi,To bring about 10,000 generations of PEACE.",this kind of ideals have all gone up in smoke,what was left was the shameless and disgusting ass-kissing towards the rulers.What was preserved and developed is not the spirit of civility,but the animalistic of Naked Apes minionism.


传统汉文明不是现代文明,自然其中的人文精神和奴性兼而有之。汉文明发展自己的人文精神,淡化自己的奴性,需要引进西方文明的契约、法治观念。可是满清把汉文明中人文精神全部泯灭了,使原有的奴性恶性膨胀,同时禁绝了华夏和西方的文化交流。华夏不能与西方文明融合实现自身的现代化,并且自己的人文精神还退化了,由此中国在近代全面落后于西方也就成为了历史的必然。

The traditional Han civilization,different from modern civilization,is a mixture of spirit of humanity and minion philosophy.For the further development of Han civilization,and to reduce it's content of minion philosophy,it definitely needs to import" concepts of contract and rule by law"of the Western culture.The Manchu rulers had succeeded in the vanishing of Han's spirit of humanity,and viciously expanding of Han's minion philosophy,at the same time,the Manchu prohibit the interact of culture between Chung Hua and the west.Chung Hua civilization was prevented to merge with the west ,thus it's modernization was stopped,moreover,it's own spirit of humanity had degenerated.We have thus reached the historical conclusion: China's falling behind of the west is unpreventable.

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